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User talk:Scarecroe
Fraggle Nut He's well past the trial period, and I'd left a nut warning him not to recreate the page. Can we go ahead and block him? (It's clearly a floating IP, which is a shame, but really). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 03:07, 26 October 2006 (UTC) Superman Awwww, you beat me to it. I wanted to surprise you. Oh well. Had you caught the Al Hirschfeld drawing in the booklet yet? (I'm going to hunt both his collections and NY Times archives to see if I can find a full copy of the image for Wiki scanning, and precisely what it was for). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 00:23, 25 October 2006 (UTC) :We're so funny. I logged on to see that you beat me to the Hirschfeld info. How cute is it that the first thing we thought of after digging into our sets was our wiki buddies image:tongue.gif — Scott (talk) 00:29, 25 October 2006 (UTC) Today on Muppet Wiki Hey, Scott! Peter and I noticed that Today on Muppet Wiki is now six days behind. With the new longer text format, we're finding it trickier to choose and summarize pages for it. I left a message for Danny too, should he show up, but help would be appreciated. I'm going to try and tackle a couple day catch-ups now, but with three at a time, it will take another later update to bring us up to speed. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 15:22, 23 October 2006 (UTC) :I'm giving up for now. Maybe I or Peter will give it anothe stab later, but in the meantime, if you can do it, and Danny doesn't, it's all yours. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 15:29, 23 October 2006 (UTC) Be a Frog Hey, check Wendy's talk page. I've solved the "Be a Frog" question. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 00:12, 23 October 2006 (UTC) Angel Corella I saw that segment, and kept thinking it was supposed to be a celebrity, but couldn't figure out who. Another testament to the Mystery Solving powers of Muppet Wiki. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 15:01, 22 October 2006 (UTC) ''Muppets TV'' Gallery Question Hey there Scott, may I direct your attention over here for a moment? I'm fine with whatever you guys decide, since I don't have a clue about legal issues of this sort. But whatever the outcome, I would appreciate if we could have the files up for a little while, so that our friends over at the forum will have an easier way to save the images rather than having to take screenshots of each and every image on their own. What do you think? — Julian (talk) 00:21, 22 October 2006 (UTC) Sourcing Tag? Hey, looking at Minor Muppet Mentions reminded me of something. I'm still a bit bothered by entries like Recess, created by questionable users like Shane, where we haven't been able to verify that the "mention" exists and the context is pretty vague, particularly given our increased emphasis on improving sourcing and citations (generally successful, I feel). It's easy to remove unsourced non-quoted claims ("Jim Henson felt this") etc., but it's a greyer area when dealing with screen content, either from something outside of our major research emphasis (as with the Mentions) or items not readily available (like the "Early Floyd" debate re The Ed Sullivan Show). I've been thinking about a way to acknowledge that, unobtrusively, until such time as it's been sourced or disproven, but also as a way with dealing with quotes or items that we know occurred, but the pages can't specify which book/appearance/article it came from, or the article creator just neglected to do so. So I'm thinking whether it would be worth fiddling with a template, maybe like one of the Wikipedia ones. Most of theirs are a bit much for this purpose, but something like the "citations needed" tag, discreet but visible, might prove useful. What do you think? -- Andrew Leal (talk) 22:52, 21 October 2006 (UTC) :I've been thinking of that lately, too. I've become quite familiar with Wikipedia's citation needed template. We should do it like that, but call it cite or something just as short and simple. I would also include in the "instructions for use" that whenever it's placed on an article, a note be left for the contributor who put it there as a courtesy. If it's an anon, then cite the IP on the talk page. — Scott (talk) 23:07, 21 October 2006 (UTC) ::That makes perfect sense. And yeah, in general, short and simple works best. A lot of recent talk page questions have been about sourcing; many are simply unanswerable right now, so a cite tag strikes me as a good solution, a reminder to ourselves, to readers (like when bally Muppet Central people start threads saying "I read this on the Wiki, is this true"), and to anyone who actually has the info. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 23:12, 21 October 2006 (UTC) Noises Off! That's a neat pic and a neat connection re cast. At some point, we need to get a screengrab of that Boston Legal episode with the Sesame book to add that, depending to some extent on how visible it was. Especially since we have a fair number of cast connections to the show. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 21:11, 21 October 2006 (UTC) :Good call! I'll get a better screenshot next month when the DVD comes out. — Scott (talk) 21:21, 21 October 2006 (UTC) ::Yay! I just added some more cast connections. The more we use Minor Muppet Mentions, the more I like it; a, it means we can sort of relax what we consider a "mention" as long as it's genuine and not just "random character sort of looks like Bert" and so on, and b, if Boston Legal ever has Denny Crane wear a Cookie Monster suit (and I wouldn't be entirely shocked if they did), we can break it out into its own page easily, with a solid foundation to start with. I'm trying to remember which Farscape episode (local station's been running it on weekends, so I've caught a few) included a monologue where Crichton complains that everyone he knows, his dad, friends, and even Buffy the Vampire Slayer will be dead when he gets back. Since the one thing that amuses me more than connections is double-listing something as both a Mention and a Reference. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 21:38, 21 October 2006 (UTC) :::Oh, that's awesome! According to this transcript site, it's episode 211. — Scott (talk) 21:58, 21 October 2006 (UTC) Reverts Hey, what happened on Architect Doozer (animated)? Was that a missed revert (I've done that), another Wikia quirk, or something else? It blanked out a small block of text. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 20:10, 21 October 2006 (UTC) :You mean how I fixed the thumb? — Scott (talk) 20:10, 21 October 2006 (UTC) ::Oh wait, I see what you mean. I must have edited an old version. — Scott (talk) 20:11, 21 October 2006 (UTC) :::Yeah, I'd fixed that last night (and removed the unsourced quote, certainly not from the episode the screencap came from). I wonder if this is related to a cache issue I had last night; when I uploaded a recropped or different image in the same namespace, I couldn't get the new version to show up for an hour or so. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 20:14, 21 October 2006 (UTC) ::::Uploading new versions of images is weird. I often have to reload the image by itself outside of the page. It's easier to do in Opera, so it doesn't bother me too much. I can see it being more frustrating otherwise. — Scott (talk) 20:17, 21 October 2006 (UTC) Superhero stuff I haven't seen the skit, but I just saw this picture, and isn't that Thor and Cap'n America back there? Maybe something for the Superhero page or the non-existant Marvel page or something. — Joe (talk) 14:49, 20 October 2006 (UTC) :Wow, our first Marvel reference! I'm sure we can find someplace for it. — Scott (talk) 20:14, 21 October 2006 (UTC) ::Well, first outside of Spider-Man, anyway! And on Sesame Street of all places. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 20:16, 21 October 2006 (UTC) Recent Changes This isn't necessarily major, and probably a side effect of whatever Wiki is doing, but I noticed Recent Changes is listing edits in odd orders. I.e., it showed a minor edit as having been conducted *prior* to the creation of a new page. Not serious, necessarily, but I wanted to make mention of it here, in case it persists and then necessitates further action. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 02:36, 18 October 2006 (UTC) :Yeah, I noticed that, too. I was hoping it was just a side effect of some of the database errors from the server work today. Let's keep an eye on it though, and I'll bring it up on the mailing list if it persists. — Scott (talk) 19:56, 17 October 2006 (PDT) Unblockable Hey dude, what's up with this kid with the unblockable IP address? -- Danny (talk) 16:23, 17 October 2006 (PDT) :I'm not sure, but I think it has something to do with the work they were doing today. I blocked the IP I think you're thinking about and I found myself blocked -- even though my IP is totally different. So I unblocked it and I've been watching and waiting. If you wanna shoot an email off, I'd encourage it. I'm kinda sick of talking to them this week. — Scott (talk) 23:30, 17 October 2006 (UTC) ::And that time, you ended up blocking me... I just sent an e-mail to John. -- Danny (talk) 23:34, 17 October 2006 (UTC) :::Yeah, when I block that IP, I lose the ability to move pages. When I logged out, the IP shown in the upper-right hand corner was the same one that we've been blocking. The server must be logging every user's IP as that particular IP. — Scott (talk) 16:32, 17 October 2006 (PDT) ::::He's keeping at it, so until this IP issue is straightened out, I went ahead and protected The Adventures of Elmo in Grouchland (three reverts is too many), and we should probably do the same if he's repeatedly targeting other pages. Just until we can block him good. Sheesh. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 23:41, 17 October 2006 (UTC) :::::Good move. Weird issue. — Scott (talk) 23:48, 17 October 2006 (UTC) ::::::Yeah. Assuming for the moment it's all the same nut (and it probably is), it's frustrating (he just created a page for a non-Muppet animated movie). Do I need to shoot a line to the Wikia mailing list or somebody to lend support, or have you and Danny got it covered? -- Andrew Leal (talk) 23:55, 17 October 2006 (UTC) :::::::I wrote to John about it. Scott just posted that there's a server error, so he might be talking to John too. -- Danny (talk) 23:59, 17 October 2006 (UTC) ::::::::I haven't emailed the mailing list about this. Today's correspondance has been about different issues. — Scott (talk) 00:43, 18 October 2006 (UTC) :::::::::Well, someone's been on it (I'm not sure who), and I just did an anon edit myself, which didn't have the same IP. Maybe give it a little more time, but looks like the issue's about resolved and the kid can be blocked. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 00:56, 18 October 2006 (UTC) ::::::::::Yeah, it looks like Juan was here doing a test. Also my IP is showing up properly when I log out now, too. — Scott (talk) 00:57, 18 October 2006 (UTC) Yoda I'm not an expert (and, in fact, have never actually seen the original Star Wars trilogy, regardless of the presence of Oz, Peter Cushing, and Alec Guinness), but I rewrote Yoda, moving the misconception earlier in the article, preceding the Oz quote which then states exactly what Jim Henson's involvement (or non-involvement) was. Hope this helps. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 00:22, 17 October 2006 (UTC) :Oh, excellent! That's much better, thanks! — Scott (talk) 00:26, 17 October 2006 (UTC) ::Actually, now that I think about it, and in light of recent discussion on Talk:Star Wars, would it be worth creating a Star Wars rumors page, or just list Yoda in the category? On the one hand, all other rumor pages are distinct from anything else on the Wiki; on the other, looking at It's a Wonderful Life and Bert and Ernie: It's a Wonderful Life Connection, makes me wonder if a single page would work better in those cases. I'm not sure, really (we have seperate pages for Disney and the Disney Ownership rumors, for example, and merging them definitely wouldn't help anything, just further muddy matters). Hmmm. Maybe I just need to see how often the "Muppet" mistake crops up re Yoda/Star Wars in general, and what others involved in the productions have said about it. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 00:33, 17 October 2006 (UTC) :::Actually, I was just now thinking of just placing Yoda in Rumors. I think that's one case where we don't need a separate article. I'm'a gonna go do that now. — Scott (talk) 00:37, 17 October 2006 (UTC) ::::That works! Also, Super Chicken is great, though I keep wondering what Jay Ward's estate would think of her (or the San Diego mascot guy, come to that). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 01:18, 17 October 2006 (UTC) :::::A question, since I haven't been following this one closely, but I notice the article is careful to point out that Yoda isn't a muppet/creature and says Yoda "was originally designed and built by Stuart Freeborn for LucasFilm and ILM." However on the Froud's site (where I was poking around yesterday), the Wendy Froud bio says that she sculpted Yoda Wendy Froud in the midst of a whole bunch of stuff "for Jim Henson". It's the Froud's own site, so I would assume it's reliable. At best I can imagine that she got hired by LucasFilm for the job although her article doesn't imply that, but I'm now very confused. -- Wendy (talk) 01:08, 18 October 2006 (UTC) ::::::Nothing to be confused about, I think. Either it's just an indelicate phrasing, or Ms. Froud is referring to being loaned through Henson, but it certainly does not mean that Yoda was made "for Jim Henson." Plus, note this sentence elsewhere on the site: "Besides working with Jim Henson, Wendy was also hired to sculpt a very important character in the George Lucas film THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK. Yoda became a central figure throughout the Star War series, becoming her most widely known creation." So there's no reason for us to assume that Henson did indeed have a more official involvment with Yoda. As for her involvement with Yoda in general, here's the explanation from the Froud site's FAQ: "Wendy is credited on"The Empire Strikes Back" as being "Yoda Fabricator." She did a major part of the developing, sculpting and puppet building. She was a key member of the team that worked under Stewart Freeborn, the head of the makeup department, who was ultimately responsible for bringing Yoda to the screen. The team all worked under the direction of and approval of George Lucas, Gary Kurtz, Jim Henson and Frank Oz." The mention of Jim Henson might seem confusing, but again, that's likely just because he loaned out the artists. An overwhelming number of interviews, and especially the testimony of Oz, the man closest to Yoda, have explained how minimal Jim Henson's personal involvement was, and indeed, even No Strings Attached (which I don't have access to right now) clarifies it. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 01:15, 18 October 2006 (UTC) :::::::The Frouds' site implies more Jim Henson involvment. The FAQs on the site mention that "Yoda building team all worked under the direction of and approval of George Lucas, Gary Kurtz, Jim Henson and Frank Oz." -- Brad D. (talk) 01:18, 18 October 2006 (UTC) ::::::::From what I can decipher from the facts, Wendy Froud became involved with Lucas by way of Jim Henson. There's even a photo on one of the Star Wars DVDs of Jim and Frank looking at the development of the Yoda puppet -- but there was no official involvement, nothing done on the books. — Scott (talk) 01:24, 18 October 2006 (UTC) Kermit Birthday Yay! That makes Kermit's Birthday almost perfect. Thanks! -- Andrew Leal (talk) 22:37, 16 October 2006 (UTC) Christopher Lee? Hey, on Danny's talk page, were you joking about connecting Christopher Lee to Superman? Because I've looked, and I don't see how it can be done. Inform me! -- Andrew Leal (talk) 02:14, 15 October 2006 (UTC) :Oh, you know what? I'm stupid. I always mix him and Frank Langella up. You especially threw me off after the Dracula mention. Sorry. — Scott (talk) 02:15, 15 October 2006 (UTC) ::Ha! Reminds me of a friend who confuses Peter Ustinov and Victor Buono. Every now and then, I'll confuse Gene Hackman and Dabney Coleman, though only because of the surnames, and it took me at least a couple of years to fully distinguish Lionel Atwill from Douglas Dumbrille. Anyway, I'm reassured to know that my finely honed connection skills had not failed me in that regard. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 02:26, 15 October 2006 (UTC) :::Dumbrille looks like the love child of Mel Brooks and Vincent Price. — Scott (talk) 02:28, 15 October 2006 (UTC) :::I think it's the angle of that photo, and the eyepatch which obscures him a bit (here's another look). I just watched him become ruined by Barbara Stanwyck in Baby Face this week for my Film Melodrama class, and if you watch/rewatch the Marx Brothers' Day at the Races (I've left my VHS of it in El Paso), that's him as J. D. Morgan, the hotel owner. On screen, both he and Lionel "Pinky" Atwill had clipped, vaguely British accents, similar moustaches, played crooked businessmen or villains, and sometimes wore eyepatches, so it took my (now well work) copy of Hollywood Character Actors to really tell them apart. Though Atwill was spoofed by Mel Brooks, in fact, with Inspector Kemp in Young Frankenstein (based on Atwill's Inspector Krohl in Son of Frankenstein). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 02:37, 15 October 2006 (UTC) Rabbi in a Hat I love it. Which, coupled with Baby Bear and Mr. Hooper, could provide sufficient justification for a Judaism article at some point. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 18:58, 13 October 2006 (UTC) :Oh, I didn't even think of Baby Bear -- nice! — Scott (talk) 18:59, 13 October 2006 (UTC) Pigs in Spaaaaace Help From The Ubiquitous Pig, an early alternate logo designed by Michael K. Frith in 1975. I'd like to include it on Pigs in Space, but can't get rid of the overlap from the other image. Help? -- Andrew Leal (talk) 18:16, 10 October 2006 (UTC) :Sweet image! Should be all set. — Scott (talk) 18:33, 10 October 2006 (UTC) Scott's talk page archive *Muppet Wiki Talk Archives